S3 E43: Where do FCC Consent Revocation Rules Stand?

Audio version

Where do FCC Consent Revocation Rules Stand?

Transcript

Jordan Eisner  
All right. Welcome everybody to another episode of Compliance Pointers. I am joined once again by Kevin Mayfield, Managing Consultant here at CompliancePoint. What are you? 11 years, Kev?

Kevin Mayfield  
11 years, they said it. They said it couldn’t happen.

Jordan Eisner  
11 years. And of course you’re a boomerang. So when you start, when you consider when you first started with our organization to now you’re 25 years.

Kevin Mayfield  
They didn’t bridge the service.

Jordan Eisner  
You’re pretty young when you first started. Really young. And today on compliance pointers, we’re going to be talking about revoke one, revoke all, but ultimately some of the consent law that was close last year, maybe we could put it that way, Kev, but or or approaching and then all of a sudden it was nixed or postponed. Give the listeners and the viewers an overview of of where it sits and then we’ll we’ll start to.
Get into the questions of what it means, how companies are going to abide by it, what how they need to prepare for it, so on and so on. But let’s just start with that revoke one, revoke all.

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah. So back in April, the FCC instituted some rules that went into effect around revocation of consent.

Jordan Eisner  
What happened? Where does it sit? Where is it today?

Kevin Mayfield  
The rules apply to any robe. I’m using air quotes here. Robo calls or robo texts. So that is a call or text using an automatic telephone dialing system. We could probably have another podcast on what the definition of an ATDS is.
If you’re using an ATDS to call or text, then you had to institute or texting in particular institute 7 words that they said you have to recognize things like stop and unsubscribe, cancel, opt out.
Revoke, I think might have been in there. And then they also said though that you can’t restrict people to those words you got a people can opt out and using any reasonable means, right. So what if they use some sort of phrase or something like that in their response we see people.
People responding or cease and desist all communications. I don’t want these messages anymore. Things that these automated systems don’t. Yeah, middle finger emojis, some expletives.

Jordan Eisner 
And more colorful things.

Kevin Mayfield  
But so that went into effect in April. The other part that got extended that they they extended out for a year is the kind of the what you mentioned the revoked from one is a a revoked from all so the challenge there came from really these large financial institutions like banks. Think about a bank, right? So I opt into low balance alerts and I opt into every time my debit card gets.
Charged. I want a text message and I opt into fraud alerts, right? Well, and then they send me a low balance alert and I say stop.
And unless they clarify what that’s going to apply to, then they’ve got to apply it all across the board, right?

Jordan Eisner  
Right. So that was postponed.

Kevin Mayfield  
That was, yeah.

Jordan Eisner  
But it’s on the calendar to go into effect again.

Kevin Mayfield  
In April of 26.

Jordan Eisner  
OK. All right. And that is the reason for the podcast today.
Maybe we’ll just start with likelihood it’s postponed again, likelihood it’s they’re going to stick with the date because that’s going to give maybe compelling reason to listen further.

Kevin Mayfield  
That’s right. So the FCC just voted on and passed unanimously to potentially amend some of its own rules and.
It was a little bit bizarre when the first when the thing first came out because not only did they want to want public comment on the revoke one revoke from one is a revoke from all, but they also talked about removing the requirement for an internal DNC list.
Because they said that, you know, the telemarketing sales rule by the FTC, it already covers that. So we don’t need that. They’ve since pulled that back. Their unanimous vote was on something that did not include that. So they pulled that piece back.
But they’ve got some abandonment things in there and things of that nature that they’re saying, are these really needed because they’re duplicative of the FTC rules that are already in effect. But anyway, lumped in that was this revoke one.
Is a revoke from all and they want public comment on whether or not you know that’s really needed and whether that should be the rule or not. So right now we’re at, I don’t know if it’s been published in the Federal Register yet, but once it gets published in the Federal Register, they open it up.

Jordan Eisner  
And when’s that happen?

Kevin Mayfield 
Public comments and then there’s a 60 day period, something like that.

Jordan Eisner  
It just doesn’t seem logical because of the example you gave right with with the financial institutions and to throw something out there to even further complicate it.
I was told by another person and they were under the impression that multi-factor authentication text messages would be included, you know. So if you opt out, for instance, maybe low balance text message and alerts, you say stop and they one revoke is revoke all.
And they gotta opt you out of everything. Then you’re trying to authenticate some sort of system and they can’t text you your authentication code because of that. That just seems. What’s your take on that?

Kevin Mayfield  
I mean, I think generally speaking, when I’m speaking as a consumer, whenever I I log into um.
I’m trying to log into my bank or whatever and it’ll say click here to send a code right to send to send your text message to this number. I mean, I think you could make the argument that a it’s an informational message, your informational message.
You’re reestablishing expressed consent because you’re asking for it to be sent. I don’t know. I think. I think it’d be a tough argument.

Jordan Eisner  
Wait, so so maybe that’s so maybe that’s a misunderstanding on my side. I I was under the impression that the revoke one revoke all was solicitation and information.
You’re saying information is carved out of it?

Kevin Mayfield  
No, it’s not carved out. But you could reestablish expressed consent, right? You know, you can opt out and then you can opt back in, for lack of better terms, right?

Jordan Eisner  
Oh, you’re saying that clicking the text me is basically an opt in every single time?

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah, you can certainly make that argument.

Jordan Eisner  
I didn’t think of that one. That’s why I’m on the, I’m on the phone with an expert. So you can, you can reassure me on things like that. So that makes sense. But yeah, still across the board though, other alerts and things like that. And I understand you don’t wanna.
Maybe, you know, I my Internet provider. I of course want to hear the informational things, but I don’t want necessarily the sales things they seem to come. Now I have to worry as a consumer, if I opt out of that, am I going to get the informational?
Stuff, right? Yeah.

Kevin Mayfield  
That’s something that a lot of companies are struggling with and that’s why I think that probably the FCC is is wanting some further comment on it.

Jordan Eisner  
And the comment will hopefully postpone. OK, let’s talk hypothetically that it doesn’t.

Kevin Mayfield  
Hypothetically.

Jordan Eisner  
What are we? What are we gonna tell people? What are we gonna tell companies to do?

Kevin Mayfield 
Yeah. So I mean, if you think that you’re sending a robotext, right? And let’s face it, I mean, I think that.
Face it, I mean, I think that.

Jordan Eisner  
Yeah, let’s pause there because you keep doing that. But my understanding is that’s pretty, it’s a pretty wide definition.

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah, and well, I think that I think that anybody that knows anything about this stuff, even if they think I’m not using an ATDS and I would, I would die on that hill in a courtroom that I’m not using an ATDS if push comes to.
To shove, they still want to follow the rules as if they are using an ATDS so that they don’t get themselves into a position where they might have to make that argument, right? So.

Jordan Eisner  
So where they have to die on that hill?

Kevin Mayfield  
So if you if you’re going to take the take the stance that hey, I’m going to follow the rules as if I’m using an ATDS, you send you know in our example with the bank, right, I’m opting in, they’re opting into three different things.
And I get the low balance alert text. I re reply stop.
They’re gonna, they’re going to have to send me a clarifying text message that says, hey, I’m paraphrasing, but hey, we got you, we got your stop request. Do you want that to apply to?
All messages that you’re receiving or do you only want to apply that to the low balance alerts? You know, reply one to stop low balance alerts, reply 2 to stop all, right?

Jordan Eisner  
OK.

Kevin Mayfield  
If I don’t, if they send me that message and I don’t respond, they have to assume the worst case scenario. But that’s really going to be if if it goes into effect, that’s really going to be the only way that you’re going to continue to be able to to send those other messages.
And not optimize everything.

Jordan Eisner  
Yeah, you’re gonna have to triage it to a degree and then if they say.

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah, we have clients where you clients say this system’s not talking to that system and it’s, you know, I mean it can, it can, it can get, it can get tricky.

Jordan Eisner  
Right.
Yeah, and then there I would imagine there’s gonna be scenarios where, OK, I don’t want the low account notifications anymore. My account’s never gonna get that low again, right? I don’t need these. So I I opt out of that and I get the text back. You wanna opt out of everything. What am I opted into that could respond with that?

Kevin Mayfield  
Oh, they could. That’s another problem in it.

Jordan Eisner  
That’s a is it? Sounds like another podcast? No. Um, right ’cause it ’cause naturally as a consumer.

Kevin Mayfield  
Five years ago, you opted into these things. You don’t know what you’re opted into.

Jordan Eisner  
If I’m a consumer and it’s a organization that I want notifications from, which you know for the record is very few, but if it is, but I’m opting out of one particular thing and I get that request.
I’m gonna want to know, well, what are the other things? Cuz maybe while I’m at it, I’ll go to those two. Maybe not. Maybe it’s just this and maybe that’s a majority of them, but I guess that’s gonna be a a training or they’re gonna have.
To perhaps anticipate some of that and have that preloaded as a response and say here’s all the here’s all the subscription notifications you have right now. Let’s know which one of these you want to opt out of. So there’s layers.

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah.
All in 165 characters or whatever, whatever it is, you know?

Jordan Eisner  
Right. Yeah, there’s layers. And that’s just one thing we’re thinking about, OK.
So that that seems like the most practical and simplest thing for now, right? Should this go into effect? It’s almost an opt-down type approach. OK, I know you want to opt out of this, but just this or everything else.

Kevin Mayfield  
Yeah, I’ve seen studies on e-mail where opt downs are very effective that given the opportunity, consumers typically will take that choice versus the unsubscribe from all type thing. So you know it could be something that companies want to look into.

Jordan Eisner  
Starts to become a text thing. Could they send a link? Could they say we’re gonna opt you out of this? You wanna opt out of just this or everything? And then it’s a link to a subscription thing similar to e-mail right when you opt out of an e-mail.
It takes you to a preference center. It’s got all the different things. Have you heard any rumblings of that?

Kevin Mayfield  
No, you could absolutely do that on the on the clarification, on the clarification text message. You know you could do that. Now I wouldn’t want to say advertise your buy one, get one free on that on that link that you’re sending me, but because then you’re talking about marketing, but but yeah, you could, you could do that. Take them to your preference center if you have one.

Jordan Eisner  
What am I not asking about thinking about that would be relevant for our listeners and viewers on this?

Kevin Mayfield  
I don’t know, just keep your ear to the ground on this, on this latest, you know, potential rollback of rules by the FCC, which is really odd because you know, I mean the FCC is taking some lumps this year on one-to-one consent. They tried to push that through the revocation of consent, that thing got extended, you know, on the on the revoke one is a revoke from all. So it’s a little bit odd that now they’re looking to pull back, but it’s a new administration, right? So I mean that.
Brendan Carr, the chairman of the FCC is, you know, talked about his delete, delete, delete initiative, trying to, you know, eliminate rules that make it more difficult on business. So you know that could, that could all be part of this.

Jordan
Well, I appreciate you joining for it, Kev. It’s always good to have you. I didn’t even mention the notoriety you have with the Brad Pitt award. We’ll save that for another podcast. I know I’ve mentioned it before. That’s a teaser for our our listeners and our watchers to either go back and listen to previous ones or stay tuned for the next one and figure out why did Kevin Mayfield win the Brad Pitt award?

Kevin Mayfield  
Always good to hear.

Jordan Eisner  
For anybody still on the line, I, you know, just a reminder, we kind of dove right into this topic today, but CompliancePoint has been advising organizations around topics like this for the better part of two decades and provide assessment services and ongoing management support retainers around these areas. Topics. People like Kevin, who live and breathe this every single day, can be at your disposal to work through these sort of solutions. Make sure you’re best prepared with a business centric mindset to take on these challenging regulatory changes and evolutions continue to comply, reduce risk, but reach your marketplace. So if you have topics like that, if you have questions like that, concerns, please don’t hesitate to reach out. You can find us at compliancepoint.com. You can e-mail us at connect@compliancepoint.com.
Kevin, when’s the last time you checked your LinkedIn? You’re more just a TikTok guy, right?
Should I advise them to reach out to you on TikTok? Should they want to talk to you?

Kevin Mayfield  
Myspace, Myspace.

Jordan Eisner  
No, no KMayfield@compliancepoint.com and then JEisner@compliancepoint.com for any inquiries till next time. Thanks Kev.